Studying law in Australia – A Vietnamese student’s perspective

In the episode of Meeting Vietnamese students studying law overseas this week, I would like to invite the readers to meet Uyen Luong Tran Nguyen – a 23-year-old student. Uyen is in her third year of studying law in Australia at Griffith University. She came to Australia at the age of 19 after a year of studyding Legal English at the University of Law in Ho Chi Minh City. I met Uyen online, a very common way to connect people from all over the world in this era.

Two years ago, I received a message from Uyen on LinkedIn, a job social network. She texted me in English with a timid tone (I think maybe because she was shy and a bit embarrassed when suddenly messaging a stranger, she might have decided to choose English to sound more formal and less shy). She, by chance, learned that I was teaching law at Durham University in the UK. Uyen expressed her interest in connecting with me and asked whether I could give her some advice as to how to study law effectively. I must confess that I always have a good impression of younger people who take initiative and express their thoughts sincerely, so I quickly replied to Uyen. And we have been online friends ever since. Although I have never met Uyen in person, I have known her for a relatively long time. I decided to invite Uyen for the second interview of IP law et al.

If the first interview with Ngoc Anh (here) who is doing law in Germany has shown reflections upon the future from someone who is not too young, the talk with Uyen has a completely different shade. Uyen possesses the innocence of youth, the eagerness to talk about her passion and even the worries as a student.

Vân Anh (VA): Hi Uyen. Can you tell me about your studies at Griffith?

Uyen: My law school does not have specific law majors but a general law degree. However, in addition to compulsory modules, there are optional ones. I personally choose subjects having wide applications rather than those with a narrower scope such as Human Rights Law, Law and Gender.

VA: Ah ha! What are the subjects that are highly applicable in your view?

Uyen: International Arbitration Law, Health Care Law and Media Law.

VA: Oh, these modules are indeed quite practical and thus popular among UK students too. When I taught at Durham, the four most popular modules were Family Law, Media Law, Intellectual Property (IP) Law, and Medicine Law. Throughout your studies, I wonder is there a moment you discovered that what you have just learned goes against your existing beliefs and thoughts?

Uyen: In general, I think I am a common-sense person. This trail has been further enhanced since I start my law degree and I have learned that an issue can be viewed through various lenses. Some things might be considered illegal from a normal perspective but from a legal perspective, they might not constitute a violation of the law due to the lack of a few factors. For example, in my experience, someone called a document that is not the “original” or has a sign of correction on it a fraud. However, if the document is not submitted to authorities but only being kept at home, it might not constitute a fraudulent “act”.

VA: That is interesting! Can you tell me which law subjects do you like the most?

Uyen: I like many of them. Last year Contract Law was my favourite because of its assessment method. Instead of assessing students’ knowledge through a traditional essay, the lecturer allows students to prepare case submissions and participate in moot courts to defend their “clients” (In other words, this method also assesses students’ public speaking skills). I also love Criminal Law and Evidence as I like investigating and solving cases. The content of these subjects is highly interesting and challenging. I have found it so “cool” when discussing elements in criminal-law cases (laughs).

VA: (laughs) Oh I see. In general, most law students love Criminal Law. It was the same back in Vietnam when I was doing my bachelor. Nowadays, many students of mine also expressed similar interest. This is understandable since Criminal Law has all thrilling and sensational elements. Regarding your Contract Law module, I find it appealing and novel that your school allows students to be evaluated by moot courts. To the best of my knowledge, I am not aware of anyone in Warwick law school opting for this assessment form. However, participating in moot courts is an extracurricular activity that attracts quite a large number of students. Coming back to our discussion of law subjects, is there any module that you think you would like but in the end, you really don’t?

Uyen: Oh, it’s Property Law. I thought I would learn about real estate transactions (laughs) but in fact, the module focuses more on theories. Although I do understand that theories are the foundation for the law-making process, I hardly find them interesting. So, after two modules on Property Law, one of the few things I remember is the ownership of lost objects. For example, if someone picks up a gold necklace on an aeroplane and could not find the owner, who then will have the right to possess the necklace? The first person who discovered it or the plane owner? It turns out that if the object is found in an area where passengers are allowed to move freely, it is likely that the finder acquires the right to keep it against all (but the true owner). If it is found within a restricted area where only authorized people can access it, the plane owner is likely entitled to keep it.

VA: Well, it seems to me that you are generally attracted towards the question “how” rather than “why”, aren’t you?

Uyen: Perhaps yes. I do understand that the application of the law is based on legal theories. Nevertheless, I just find it hard to digest those theories.

VA: So, are there any subjects that you think you might not like but end up liking?

Uyen: Not really as I’m passionate about law in general. Hence, after studying some modules, the only possibility is that I end up liking them more.

VA: Oh, I wish to hear the same from my students (laughs). I see that you have a strong passion for law. Where has sparked your passion? 

Uyen: My interest in studying law has grown since I was a little kid. My childhood is quite different from others. I didn’t watch many cartoons and Disney movies but instead mostly watched TVB series¹ about investigating and solving crimes. Because my parents are lawyers, they often rented such videotapes to watch in the early 2000s. I thus watched them together with my family, and then gradually get interested in law.

1. TVB is an abbreviation of Television Broadcasts Limited, a television broadcasting company based in Hong Kong. In the 1990s, TVB series were very popular in Vietnam, particularly police/detective dramas. It is not uncommon that many Vietnamese kids wanted to become barristers or police just by watching those series.

VA: Your story is very interesting even it is not something that I expected! Can you tell me what is your biggest challenge while studying law in Australia?

Uyen: I think my biggest difficulty is the communication skills to practice law. Law, regardless of which jurisdiction, always requires a high level of accuracy and carefulness in terms of language chose. A word can have many synonyms but they do have different nuances. I need to exercise the art of word choice carefully.

An example of high precision in legal terminologies is the difference between “solicitor”, “legal practitioner” and “lawyer”. The Australian Legal Profession Act 2007 (Qld) clearly sets out the differences amongst those terms although a layman often sees these terms the same as a way to refer to “lawyer”. Lawyers are individuals who have been admitted to a supreme court. If a lawyer does not currently hold a practising certificate, they are not considered as a solicitor. They thus are not allowed to engage in legal practice. Individuals who are not lawyers are not allowed to give legal advice, even in the case of giving free advice to friends and family, on the grounds of not having a valid practising certificate.

Furthermore, I want to become a litigation lawyer, and hence need to improve my communication skills even more. I also learn that sociocultural understanding and body language are key in legal practice. Law cannot go alone; in my view, it will be best accompanied by other fields. Therefore, a rich understanding of the social life of a country where one wishes to practice is essential for the application of the law.

Being aware of my drawbacks, I attended several court hearings in person to learn how Australian lawyers present their cases in court and observe how they use language and interact with each other. It’s a pity that before starting to study laws, I did not know about these things so I would have invested in those skills earlier. If I could speak English like a native, I would have confidently participated in moot court competitions at school.

VA: Your example of word choice is reminiscent of my very first day at Bangor Law School. During an Intellectual Property Law class, my lecturer at that time (who was my then PhD supervisor) read out loud an EU legal provision, in which the word “shall” was used. He emphasized to the whole class that the word “shall” in a legal context is a “must”, not “will” as in an ordinary-language context. Therefore, any provision that contains the word “shall”, is an obligation. Since then, I began to realize the importance of language (English) in studying law.

Or another instance is when I submitted a piece of my writing to him. I remember vividly that in the feedback, the lecturer underlined a sentence where I wrote “India introduced a new law […]”. He asked me “What do you mean by “introduced” here? Has India passed this law or just suggested it?”. He explained, if the law has already passed, I should use words like “adopt” or “pass” which accurately reflect the legislative process. Meanwhile, the word “introduced” is ambiguous. It will make readers wonder, and hence might question my reasoning. If the mistake is repeated, my article might be judged as ambiguous and having implausible arguments. I thus learnt that ambiguity in language could confuse the readers even though it is grammatically correct. Since then, I have become even more careful when it comes to word choice.

Uyen: (nods) I agree. My lecturer of Criminal Law also said that he dislikes using words like “he, she, they, it” because of their vagueness. He always suggests students naming the subject correctly to avoid any confusion.

VA: Going back to the communication skills, so what have you done to improve them?

Uyen: I now become more mindful of my intonation and picking the right word when talking. I also think more carefully about what I want to convey in a message. Thanks to my current internship, I have had many opportunities to communicate in a legal context. I see each conversation as an opportunity to practice and pay more attention to adjust my tone and intonation. I also focus on how other colleagues use words and learn from them.

VA: So you are doing an internship. Can you tell me a little more about it?

Uyen: I am doing my internship at a boutique firm in Australia. Its areas of legal practice are real estate, conveyancing, family law, and litigation. One of the advantages of working in a small firm is that I’m assigned to do various tasks and thus be exposed to a wide range of different legal matters. I have learnt a lot.

VA: Have you ever made any mistakes during your internship?

Uyen: (laughs shyly) I must confess that yes I did. Every time I made a mistake, I tried to analyse it, and have a lesson learnt for next time. I then constantly remind myself not to do the same in the future.

VA: So do you feel that the knowledge you have learned at school is applied in practice?

Uyen: Yes, definitely. I do enjoy hands-on experience. Whenever I can practice what I have learnt, I feel so satisfied. So now you can see why I find it hard to apply theory-related subjects.

VA: (smiles) I think you’re the type of person who likes to take action and see the results coming from your action rather than a person who likes to contemplate and reflect. Now, let’s talk a little more about your experience of online study during the pandemic.

Uyen: I’m an introvert, therefore, I did not seem to have a lot of trouble with switching to online study at first. It was fine for me to see people on screen and not to have in-person interactions. However, that feeling did not last very long. I have gradually realised that my productivity was significantly reduced due to procrastination. I thought the lecture would be recorded anyway so I can always watch it later, and there was no need to attend scheduled lectures. There was a subject that I had learnt almost nothing about until week 5. I was extremely worried and stressed once essay titles were released. Although I managed to get a good mark for that subject, in the end, it was a big lesson learnt on my part. Not to mention that in addition to the pandemic, the internship also affects my concentration.

VA: I totally get this. I know a postgraduate student who was in the same situation as you. She was so busy with work during summer, and hence, didn’t have time to write her 10,000-word dissertation. Consequently, her dissertation got a pass only. She was devastated and told me that in her country she was a first-class student who was always getting good grades. She was so embarrassed by the Pass grade. Taking her case as an example, you might want to prioritize your studies. Focusing too much on working can be a detriment to your studies, especially in the final year.

Uyen: This is exactly what I’m thinking right now. While working, I often get caught up in other auxiliary legal issues, and then spent an enormous amount of time researching them. I thus spend even less time studying. I regret that my GPA is not high as I wanted it to be. The Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions in Queensland currently opens for Work Experience Application, but my academic performance is not good enough to apply. What a pity! I could have done better. However, I must admit that I feel very satisfied when I can apply my legal knowledge at my workplace while being able to earn a living.

VA: I really understand how you feel, but I hope that the given ẽample will give you a different way to look at things. During my teaching career, I have seen many students, despite their not-so-good grades, participating in many societies and activities, e.g being the president of one club and at the same time the secretary of another society. Later, they were concerned that they could not keep up with their studies but were still having to juggle many extra-curriculum activities. I have advised my students to let go of some of their responsibilities to focus on their degrees. Sadly, only very few listened. Some ended up deferring exams until next year on several grounds. So, you might want to reconsider your top priority, don’t be tempted by instant gratification at the expense of your long-term goals. While we are on this topic, what about your future career direction?

Uyen: I want to become a solicitor once I graduate. After that, I wish to study further to be either a barrister specializing in criminal law or a prosecutor.

VA: Oh! That seems challenging but exciting! Is there anything that you wish you knew before you decided to study law?

Uyen: I wish I could have come to Australia at an earlier age so I could understand more about its culture and social life. I wish that I could have spoken English more fluently before entering Law school. I also wish that I could have done two degrees, such as Law and Economics, or Law and Criminology. I believe having such double degrees will help me gain a deeper understanding of both law and another field.

VA: It seems to me that double degrees are common in Australia. At Warwick, although I don’t know if any students are doing double degrees, many students choose to study Law and Sociology, or Law and Politics. A few students who study STEM subjects, such as computer science and biology, choose to do IP law as they might want to become patent attorneys in future. To my surprise, their academic performance is quite impressive. They scored high marks for the IP law essay even many of them had not written any law essays before. They also surprised me with their logical and critical thinking. Since we are on the topic of essay writing, can you share with me your most memorable essay? It does not have to be the one awarded the highest or lowest score, just the one that made you think the most?

Uyen: It’s an essay on Immigration Law. This is the subject that I mentioned before that I did not study until week 5. When I received the essay title, I was stressed and spent a lot of time reviewing the first five lectures and researching the topic. However, thanks to my intensive research during a short period, I gained a different perspective on studying legal theories after finishing the essay. I understand more about immigration policies, visas, and why the Australian government has set certain policies, especially when immigration is a controversial and divisive topic in some countries. I got a pretty good score and was praised for having one of the best introductions.

(I asked for Uyen’s permission to share her essay here.)

VA: As I mark a lot of law essays, I like writings that have a clear introduction and present the essay structure and the author’s general argument. It makes the reading and marking much easier for the marker especially when I have to grade hundreds of essays. Let’s move on to another topic. Can you tell me that whether studying law in Australia has changed your mindset and if it has, how?

Uyen: I feel that I have become more mature than before. I particularly enjoy the common law system as it shows me different aspects of a legal provision. We have statutes but it is really appealing to see how a legal regulation is interpreted and then applied by judges in different scenarios. The interpretation and application of the law help to fill the lacunae that legislators might not have foreseen when making the law or that are caused by the rapid development of technology and the profound change in society.

At the time of this interview, Uyen has already entered her final year for a few months. I can tell that she has presented a better version of herself. From a shy and confused student, who was not sure what to do when she first met me, Uyen’s current version is a confident, jolly and happy girl. While Australia is still under lockdown because of the COVID-19, I have nothing more to wish her to get through this difficult time with the best results.